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Dupe and Discord Ban - Affected IGNs Braxbro, robbieg2000

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Yesterday we were banned by Maxi for duping items. Robbie constructed the setup, according to the logs. I never knew about the setup, and was AFK at the time. Therefore, I am innocent, no doubt. The chatlogs will say it. The setup came about AFTER I went AFK, according to Maxi's logs.

Maxi's Accusation: We duped 'nether star almost every botania flower steel, osmium,......lots of other things also some medrives crafting temibnals,.........neverending story what have been duped , controll circuit of mekanism and enriched alloy,...gold iron acceleration cards,....'

Our argument:

1a. The netherstars were mass farmed in the nether before the crash. He used a builder's wand to place the blocks.

1b. The steel, alloys, and circuits were obtained from an advanced infusion factory with 8 speed upgrades. The digiminer from the Refugee kit was used to mine the resources required from a variety of locations (nether, overworld, etc). Some of the passes were nowhere near our base. Before Robbie joined I had 2 diamond chests full of ores and materials just from the digiminer alone.

2. The bug does not dupe nonstackable items (Drives duplication impossible, divi sigil dupe impossible, power cubes, etc).

4. The bug was with a niche interaction we'd never heard about. A resonant/signalum retriever entering a single-slot mass storage item (drawer, barrel, etc) from a hungry chest is a really random setup that no one expects.

5. Maxi knew it was a dupe setup instantly - why isn't the retriever or an essential component banned?

6. Maxi repeated the same accusations over and over, even after I was making solid counterarguments. We redirected him on some to Ethel, who checked our base the day before for the same reason.

7. I've reported every little bug I've noticed.

8. Maxi blocked me, banned us from the discord, and I believe network wide as well for 'spamming him' when we were simply countering his repetitive argument.

9. The whole thing is over sticks of all things - there is no evidence of duping anything else.

10. The logs against us not producing the materials legit predate the crash and thus are unreliable. Maxi also has access to them, and therefore, any logs he cites cannot be used in a legitimate argument before first proving the logs were unmodified.

11. Maxi knew where the setup was (tucked in a corner by the ME system according to his screenshot). Either he must have scoured our base for it or already known it was there.

12. Again with Ethel. Ethel spotchecked our base the day before and was satisfied with our defense as to why we had our resources.

13. Our base didn't change much in that day, and the rollback took more than a day to complete.

14. Hungry chests pick up anything, even accidental drops. The stick could have been dropped by anyone - for any reason, intentional or not.

15. Maxi doesn't play AFAIK, so he cannot be positive that something is 'impossible to obtain in 50h'

16. Robbie's name is included exclusively in the log shown.

17. I've been on TCO a while - why would I waste everything I've worked for all over some sticks?

18. Robbie hardly slept during the 50hrs between when he started and when we were banned (Except during server downtime)

19. Why would we put it in the open if we knew it duped? Why would we be duping sticks if we knew it duped?

If after all these arguments you still believe we duped, why didn't you delete the duped items, ban the retriever, and let us go on our merry way? If Maxi knew about the interaction before he found our 'setup' we accidentally made, why was it not banned? Similarly, if Maxi knew about the node in a box bug rerolling the node, why was that not banned? If Maxi knew about them, it should have been his job to ban them.

Thanks for listening. I can share the DM logs with Ethel and Maxi if you'd like - DM me (Braxbro#5536) if you wish to arrange to see them.
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Posted Jul 15, 18 · OP · Last edited Jul 15, 18 by Braxbro
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Good day Brax, let me give a few anwsers to a few points

point 0. Just because 1 team member duped, doesn't mean the rest is innocent, i find it hard to believe you didn't notice the set-up in your base and wondered what it was. But okay, possible

1a. As far as I know and have tested, you can't place skulls with a builders wand. But if you know a way I am willing to listen to the explanation.
1b. Fair enough, its easy to get many metals and stuff in a fairly limited time.

2. its invalid towards your reasoning, a dupe is a dupe, if it dupes stackables or not.

3?

4. Most dupes that are low key are niche and seem like random set-ups. But that only raises the question why it was in your base. And build on another location before far away from a possible use for auto picking up items.

5. It wasn't banned because we can't ban anything that can be used for dupes. if that was the case we could better play vanilla, and even vanilla has its own kind of exploits.

6. as far as I have read, your "solid" counter arguments were also pretty much the same, and also changed a few times. But I am willing to listen to your arguments again, hence this post.

7. just because you report a bug, doesn't mean you don't use another one. Besides that we already gave you a warning, and you didn't seem to have a clear idea about the rules (i.g. cursed earth).

8. I have seen the logs, and it seems very much that after you ask questions you don't wait for an answer, but assume something and jump straight onto that. 21 messages within a few mins without waiting for an answer sounds a bit spammy. But then again, it might be how I read it and now how you mean it.

9. The barrel currently contains sticks, that doesn't mean anything. And even if it was just sticks, its still duping, and if we say sticks are okay, next time iron is okay, and so on. No duping is no duping.

10. The fact that you use "maxi can access them" as an argument shows me you are in the wrong place, if you don't trust others with logs about your stuff, you have to set up your own server. And I cant think of a single reason why Maxi would have purposely altered the files just to frame you. Can you?

11. we "scour" bases from people if we suspect something is up. Its normal for the staff to check on people sometimes, to see if everything is still within rules.

12. a lot can happen in a day, new info logs get found, things are said.

13. the fact that your base "didn't change much" is very not telling. not much is still some. And as you perfectly described, that set-up only takes 3 blocks. So setting it up isn't much work.

14. That makes me wonder, why is there a hungry chest tucked away in a corner, with only a barrel underneath it? if you want to collect your dropped stuff, a barrel wont do much. And its also very specifically the itemduct and the retriever, why there are hundreds of more common and easier set-ups.

15. I can assure you that Maxi knows plenty what he is talking about, and its not just him, we have a very capable staff.

16. kind of the same point I made during point 0. I find it hard to believe you didn't notice the set-up and wondered what it was.

17. I am wondering the same, why go that hard and (sometimes) rude against the staff that try to figure something out while you have been around for all that time.

18. Again very invalid reason, just because you play a lot, doesn't mean you always follow the rules. Its not mutually exclusive.

19. Then explain to me what that set-up was, why it was tested away from the

conclusion:
The reason why he don't just delete the dupes and let you go back to playing its because that is not a punishment. "Oh, you duped? that's fine, here, keep playing, and enjoy yourself". On top of that we already warned you, on discord and on the server, about various things.
and again pointing to point 5. We cant ban everything, we trust our players that they don't, and if they break the rules, there are consequences.

but I am willing to talk to you, in a normal way, and in the end give you a fair judgement.
Posted Jul 15, 18
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I was AFK when the setup was made, according to the timestamp. Therefore, I could not have known about it. I asked about the cursed earth because the last time I checked the rule was 'only if you could control it'. I did not know whether it had changed.

The inability to dupe nonstackables is important because several of the items accused of being duped were nonstackable.

I know many dupes are low key, but googling it I found exactly ONE instance of it being reported after I was banned (while afk mind you). It wasn't common knowledge, and I doubt anyone is like, ok, will placing this machine here next to this one with this pipe between it cause a dupe? No. They test it, and if they dupe, they either abuse the crap out of it, or report it when they notice it.

I know duping of any form is not okay. However, items can be destroyed. So surely just destroy everything we don't have an explanation for having, and we're fine.

Why did two staff members check the base back to back, one day apart though? If we had had more time and didn't get it spot checked before I came back I would have noticed the bug and reported it.

I understand Maxi probably knows more than he lets on, but he may not know how fast one can progress. Again, talk to Ethel - he said with the explanations I gave, everything except the dupe machine seemed reasonable.

I tested the setup in a testing world with Maxi watching - only then did I find out it duped.

As for why the hungry chest was there in the first place, I have legitimately no idea. It wasn't in any useful place and the barrel wasn't helpful for our purposes.

Robbie remembers making it, but it was unintentional, because he made it because he was unable to put things in the barrel to move mass amounts of building mats, so he used a chest to pump in, but he was too lazy to make a normal chest so he used a hungry one.

Also, I used a mix of our group's arguments, hence the 'maxi is incompetent' insinuated accusation as Robbie is highly suspect of admins because he's been affected by admin abuse a lot before.
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Posted Jul 15, 18 · OP · Last edited Jul 15, 18 by Braxbro
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One thing first, write everything you want to say I one go, it makes things a lot more clear and make it a lot easier to reply to. And if you keep changing answers it's not getting more credible "he doesn't remember" "no wait he does remember".

I am currently putting together all the logs and making a time line, so I get more clear when who was doing what.

And for as long as I have been around, the cursed earth has been the same, and ignorance doesn't means immunity from the rules.

It's hard to see and check exactly what got duped, but there are a few basics that 99% gets duped, after more research we indeed found you can't duped unstackalbles, but that doesn't exclude other stuff isn't.

And no, no you can't test every setup you make for duped, but going straight for that setup, twice, without any other interaction to it that happens to be a dupe? I don't buy that.

Just removing duped items isn't a punishment, how does only removing the items that are duped prevent people from doing it? Try if, if you get caught? No loss and continue where you were. No we make sure people don't try it or get punished.

And like I said, if staff suspects anything they check, and if multiple staff check the same person it gets even more suspicious.

There is no way we can check that, we don't know what you know or don't know.

Again raises the question why was it there?

And again, that exact setup? That exact dupe? There are many easier and quicker ways.

And that last argument is not even an argument, the fact "your group" questions the staff because he got "abused" (which I think is the very wrong word in this case) in a situation that is completely separate from this server, from this staff team doesn't make it even remotely okay to call us incompetent.
And if you dont trust us, leave, no one is forcing them to stay, but if you want rlto play on this server, in this community. You'll have to trust the staff team, no you don't always have to agree with us, and yes, we can have a healthy arguement, but if you want to play you have to trust we do everything fair and dont bully or abuse players and never alter files to get "rid" of someone
Posted Jul 15, 18
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He did it twice - because he moved the barrel to dump the items he was mass storing elsewhere for construction purposes, then he came back and reloaded it with different materials. He didn't notice because he was putting in twenty plus stacks very fast.

I never did the cursed earth either. If you noticed, I built a wisp farm in the top of the tower without the cursed.

I get that swatting someone's hand will not stop them from trying again - but that's why you have successive punishments compound. This is the first instance of such offense.
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Posted Jul 15, 18 · OP · Last edited Jul 15, 18 by Braxbro
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Also, I do trust the staff personally, I just think that this was a really weird misunderstanding (we use itemducts for item transport at the moment)
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Posted Jul 15, 18 · OP
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We have prove that it happened more than two times. and that still doesn't answer why that complicated specific set-up, and now that I read back, how come we haven't heard about the fact that the barrel didn't work and couldn't accept any items? only after asking I-don't-know-how-many-times about that specific setup, now comes the answer that the barrel didn't work. And why not use a drawer or diamond chest for mass moving if the barrel didn't work, why go to that expensive strange setup?

You didn't use it, correct, but it still shows you don't seem to know about the current rules.

and yes, this is the first accusation about duping, but we have warned you for other things before. We aren't going to keep warning people.

and I am glad you trust our staff, and maybe it is a very very strange misunderstanding. But the reaction also is, instead of asking what happened and wait for a normal answer, but go into full attack mode that nothing happened, which also raises suspicion, don't you agree?

and I just got some info, we did a ban according to the logs 32 hours after the last set-up and 47 hours after the first set-up. So even if the rollback messed up the files, where were still 15 hours between the first and last set-ups. That also means the set-up would have been in your base for quite some time. And lets say the roll back messed the clock for 16 hours, that would still leave 16 hours unexplained. Unless the rollback rewrote the entire files logically and realistically. I can tell you that these times are correct, maybe an error marin of about 30 mins to an hour

and I still have that question about the builder wand with the withers. How exactly does it work?
Posted Jul 15, 18
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He used soulsand to place the witherskulls, then used the builderwand to massspawn them. I didn't know why he made the darn thing until he told me.
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Posted Jul 15, 18 · OP
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Regardless, I was AFK at the time. I never saw in my numerous movements round the base the set up. I spend most my time in the upper floors. Peter spends his time over at the mountain, and Robbie spends it down below. I don't know why he built it before the crash.
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Posted Jul 15, 18 · OP
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